Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

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Dell4444
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Post by Dell4444 »

Also--There are a number of other people who are going before me (I don't go until February), and they have agreed to post their experiences as well. I will be sure to report on anything they say as well.
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scoobysnacks
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Post by scoobysnacks »

I can't wait to hear about this.....
Age:29 | Onset Age: 25.5 | Symptoms: Initially burning in prostate/perineum, burning in urethra, uncontrollable muscle contraction before urinating, dual ache in groin, left testicle pain, feeling of golf ball in rectum, soarness in rectum, and muscle spasms, now mainly very mild urinary tract inflammation, burning mildly after ejaculation, some days after physical activity involuntary mild muscle contraction before urinating | Helped By: .5 mg of Ativan, Aleve (naproxen), quercetin, alcohol in large quantities (vodka and soda), stretching, walking, internal massage the perineum area and levators. | Worsened By: sitting, weightraining, jogging, coffee, caffeine in general, alcohol bothered me at first, overdoing sex
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robertpagen
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desperation in the pursuit of normal

Post by robertpagen »

With a deep respect to all who feel or have felt this disorder, if someone had told me between the years of 1990 and 1996 that I had to take extreme measures for the possibility of just being an elusive normal, I would have considered it.

I don't know if there is any physical reason for this, but the unyielding pain at that time left me rather delusional when I would make decisions, often impulsively.

Be well,

Robert
Age: 43 | Onset Age: 17 | Symptoms: previously: constant urgency, premature ejaculation, burning at tip of penis, pelvic ache current: semi annual flares. | Helped By: PT, yoga, stretch, keeping warm(long johns) boxer briefs, regular sleep routine | Worsened By: cystoscopy, antibiotics (fluoroquinolones) alcohol, coffee, stress, masturbation, cold
neis
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by neis »

For anyone interested, the site below is a new one launched, I am told, by "Rob", a moderator on the other site. He and his "wife", "Debbie", have repeatedly stated they have no financial arrangement with Dr. Song's clinic, either monetary or in services. They delete threads unfavorable to Dr. Song, ban people for the slightest dissent from their views, bash every other doctor they've seen, monitor "their" board 24/7, and now have created, out of pure altruism and goodness, this new site. They have influenced many desperate and suffering guys to drop $20k+ on Dr. Song, none who have reported being cured. They ask people to simply trust them, and basic questions about the contents of Dr. Song's injectables are ignored, and eventually deleted. If Dr. Song is the definitive cure for prostatitis, his promoters behaviors are doing him no good in the long run.


http://www.prostatitiscure.com/
Last edited by neis on Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by webslave »

Well, that clears up some unanswered questions for me. I still had a tiny doubt in my mind that Rob 'n Debbie may be a genuine (if misguided) couple, trying to help other people, and not just paid shills for Dr Xin Ping Song, but that doubt is now removed, so thank you for posting that information.

Although the site is clearly built by a native English speaker (Rob), the site ownership is registered to:

Dr. Song's Urological Prostate Hospital
Xinping Song
Gate No. 3, Xiangtan Sports Center
Xiangtan, Hunan 411104
CHINA
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superuse
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by superuse »

20k is a lot of money in a country where someone in a factory will pull down $1500/yr.

Hell, the folks that went to Nantes France with the PNE surgery (far more involved than injections) spent about $5000 with travel and everything? (in a country where a factory worker may pull down 30k+) Lots of good to say about the facilities and post op nursing, etc. Outcome of the surgery questionable though. I believe the doctors were publishing their results, writing papers, establishing the procedure in Houston, etc... Isn't the SP clinic a 7 day affair for about $3000? Proportionately the Chinese procedure is about $300,000-400000 in western money, depending on how you think about it.

I'm not even sure some involved cases of prostate cancer would cost $20,000 without insurance in a U.S.hospital.(many people making 70k+/yr minimum in us hospital)

I don't think I will try the ground rhino horn (or whatever it is ) injections just yet. In any event, there is definitely no altruism here, and at 20k there is plenty of money to spread to bird dogs on websites etc. It is doubtful they could even get $700 from their own countrymen doing this procedure.

China is a very corrupt country, the communist govt only remaining in power if they can deliver the economic growth the country craves. The public health issues are huge. Whatever preconceived notions you have about "Eastern" medicine, corrupt greedy Western medicine (with their 10s of billions of research, double blind studies etc) you're better getting over it.

--Good luck
--jjf
Age:43 | Onset Age:36 | Symptoms: First urinary and backside, golf ball feeling, now ok (no heavy exercise) . Major onset seemed to be with heavy coughing spell , felt "tearing" or nerve pain in rectum/prostate. | Helped By:Hot showers,sleep.Worsened By: Type A obsessiveness ... Stressing, what-if thinking, weights.
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The usual... anxiety prone programmer (my case), accountant, lawyer or self employed sitting 50 hrs/week combined with compulsively exercising on a bike,weights or running to compensate for stress. Also aka "graduate student syndrome" New email sigma556@hotmail
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by Sleeper Service »

Interesting. Regardless of whether there is any truth to Song's claims there is still an obvious conflict of interest between being an independent moderator on a public site and actively working for a practitioner of medicine.
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superuse
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by superuse »

Does he really get $20,000 us?

--jjf
Age:43 | Onset Age:36 | Symptoms: First urinary and backside, golf ball feeling, now ok (no heavy exercise) . Major onset seemed to be with heavy coughing spell , felt "tearing" or nerve pain in rectum/prostate. | Helped By:Hot showers,sleep.Worsened By: Type A obsessiveness ... Stressing, what-if thinking, weights.
Not a doctor. -

The usual... anxiety prone programmer (my case), accountant, lawyer or self employed sitting 50 hrs/week combined with compulsively exercising on a bike,weights or running to compensate for stress. Also aka "graduate student syndrome" New email sigma556@hotmail
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by garyholc »

That site is frightening and I bet the testimonials are not from genuine patients. Anyone can create an email address and pretend to be someone else. And if he can CURE prostatitis, where are all the medical papers. To cure something so problematic around the world, if I were a consultant, I would be publishing papers, meeting other medics around the world to present my methods.
Age: 33 | Onset Age: 32 Initial Symptoms: Frequent urination Current Symptoms: The odd feeling of frequency but not much else Helped By: Not thinking about it, hot bath, red wine, light exercise, Bowen technique seems to help, getting on with my life Worsened By: catastrophic thinking, worrying things will get worse, feeling depressed, reading websites too often! Work! Sitting in work all day isn't good!! Current Progress : Since 1st Sept 08, no pain!!! :)
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by neis »

How about these claims,
http://www.prostatitiscure.com/dr-song- ... titis.html

The injections are $500/day, and he recommends a minimum 30 day stay. Most stay 35-40 days. There are many other treatments he puts people through such as 2 hour antiviral IV drips, intraurethral antibiotic injections, and nasal/sinus antibiotic drips. All these at additional costs. Add in cost of food, lodging, airfare, leisure, and lost wages, and you've got quite a pricey vacation.
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superuse
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by superuse »

Dell4444 if you check by try to put a hold on your trip to Dr. Song.

You don't have much info posted but if you are in the truly apeshit phase of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome (1st 2-18 months) you are likely to do anything to "make it go away" and "get back to normal" especially in 30 days. Dr Song is likely to be there if he is truly successful, or unless he misses the thousands in kickbacks to the local govt and military officials (which are happening no matter what).

Even many practitioners in the west of Traditional Chinese Medicine (which this isn't) have had to look for non Chinese sources for their herbs and such because of the low quality and contamination (herbs and heavy duty chemicals processed in the same facility for instance). There is no FDA, Federal trade commission or equivalent of the other western nations. Its the almighty buck, big trade-offs in public safety and health for economic growth and corruption that rules. Whatever was going on in the US or England in the early 1900s its probably that times 5.

I would be hesitant to have 30 injections from a board certified urologist from Mayo (with full malpractice insurance and numerous published papers) much less Dr song with stuff from the jang jong factory. (Does he even give you a patient chart to take home with full documentation of exactly what he injected and where in case of complications back home?)

If you haven't, read the A HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS book. Study it put some of it into practice and perhaps spend some on a therapist recommended in techniques from here or Dr Wise. Or spend the $3500 on his SP seminar. It is peanuts compared to the (20000+?) and you'll still have any other option open.

--jjf
Age:43 | Onset Age:36 | Symptoms: First urinary and backside, golf ball feeling, now ok (no heavy exercise) . Major onset seemed to be with heavy coughing spell , felt "tearing" or nerve pain in rectum/prostate. | Helped By:Hot showers,sleep.Worsened By: Type A obsessiveness ... Stressing, what-if thinking, weights.
Not a doctor. -

The usual... anxiety prone programmer (my case), accountant, lawyer or self employed sitting 50 hrs/week combined with compulsively exercising on a bike,weights or running to compensate for stress. Also aka "graduate student syndrome" New email sigma556@hotmail
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by webslave »

Well, here's another patient's report while we wait for Dell:
mikietrav wrote:Hello everyone, well it has been over 3 months from China and I feel it is appropriate for me to post.

It seems my symptoms are mildly improved, not the great improvement I was expecting. Before going to China I had frequency urine Dribble and I would Dribble semen minutes after ejaculating. It appears that the frequency has died down maybe 20 percent, but all other symptoms are present. My prostatitis was never as bad as most peoples on this forum, I really never had pains. In China Dr Song advised that my case was very easy to cure and he gave me a 98 percent full recovery prediction. This was before I paid him though. After returning I followed all Songs rules to a T, in fact I have still not had sex without a condom, and I never will. No oral sex either. Also had no sex period for first month after returning. I just ejaculated twice a week. No alcohol either. Also I was very clean showering 2 times a day.

I am not here to complain or anything I just want the truth out. I will also add that I have been in contact with other recent former patients of Dr Song and I have heard rumors of other patients progress too. I will not mention any names.

Unfortunately many others are not cured either. From what I can gather it seems Songs cure rate is around 30 percent, maybe lower.

It seems that if you have calcification causing your problems, Song can dissolve the calcification and give you relief. Although if your prostate lacks the calcification, Dr Song has a very high failure rate.

I have been doing so much research over the past year; have had every test in the book to figure out why I have symptoms. All normal, so I narrowed it down to 2 things.
  1. the bacteria,
  2. pelvic floor problems
Well daily injections for 30 days took care of the bacteria; I feel that bacteria had little to do with my symptoms. I think pelvic floor is my main problem.

Before going to China I was very anti pelvic floor therapy, in fact I got mad whenever it was brought up. Now after research and common sense it appears that pelvic floor disorders are causing a majority of prostatitis. I have visited many doctors, including a big shot at the University of MD; he was given millions of dollars to look at bacteria in healthy men’s prostate, compared with prostatitis patients. Amazingly, the healthy men’s prostate cultured the most bacteria. This proves that most prostatitis has little to do with pathogen infection.

Also stress plays a huge role, my symptoms all started after my 2 grandmothers died in the same week, one in Greece, so I had to fly to Greece from the US and attend a miserable Greek funeral, 1 month later...booom — prostatitis. I was very close with the Greek grandmother.

If a person has recurrent bacteria prostatitis Dr Songs daily shots may do the trick, but for your average patient without bacteria cause, Dr Song in my opinion is a waste of time.

I also want to address the cost of Dr Songs treatment; this seems to slip under the radar. Dr Song is raping his western patients cost wise. The average Chinese person makes 2k a year. Everything in China is dirt cheap, that is until you enter the clinic. Dr Song charges $13k for 30 days of treatment. You can clearly see the rape when you get an ultrasound at the Chinese hospital (not affiliated with Song) before treatment. It only cost like 30 bucks. An ultrasound in the USA can cost 400 dollars.

Yet when you enter the Song clinic the prices skyrocket. 400 dollars a day for treatment, not including twice 500 dollars for testing and more for other things.

I really want to believe that Dr Song is a good man, unfortunately with his pricing I just can’t. Money and greed is the route of all evil. Dr Song is really taking advantage of poor desperate people with his prices.

I highly advise people to consider pelvic floor therapy before getting injection treatments or visiting foreign lands.

It seems after people return from China they get somewhat timid about posting or just do not want to be in the minority of people who were not fully cured. I hope more people, whom I know for a fact were not cured, also post.

I will end by saying I have always wanted to visit China, ever since I was a child. I got to spend 30 days there with my fiancé. We saw sights, enjoyed the food , people etc etc. It was actually a pretty fun. Not including the daily hell injections of course.

I am having an appointment with a PT who will evaluate my pelvic floor, I will post my progress.

Also I have had countless emails over the months and some phone calls, I tried to advise people to just give me my 3 months to give a honest answer on if Song is the right choice. Many people just could not wait and they wanted me to advise right away, so I did my best on my current symptoms at the time. It was very hard to determine an accurate answer because symptoms change daily with prostatitis. I hope I didn't lead anyone down the wrong road.

Mike
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by Sleeper Service »

I commend miketrav for his honest commentary here. I hope he finds relief with pelvic floor therapy.
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by garyholc »

Yeah that was a really interesting read.
Age: 33 | Onset Age: 32 Initial Symptoms: Frequent urination Current Symptoms: The odd feeling of frequency but not much else Helped By: Not thinking about it, hot bath, red wine, light exercise, Bowen technique seems to help, getting on with my life Worsened By: catastrophic thinking, worrying things will get worse, feeling depressed, reading websites too often! Work! Sitting in work all day isn't good!! Current Progress : Since 1st Sept 08, no pain!!! :)
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Re: Dr. Song In China (thread #2)

Post by neis »

I applaud miketrav for his honesty. He's the only guy from the other site that's held to his word and reported his follow-up to Song's treatment. It's not easy admitting our expensive errors. I wish mikietrav would blow this fraud open and post all the private emails from other Song patients, then go after Cult leaders Rob and Debbie for their relentless and forceful advocacy of Song and suppression of all other opinions. It's costing guys thousands, and worse, could be putting guys lives at risk. Nobody knows what's in Song's injections, or what the standards of cleanliness and care at his clinic are. I, for one, was attacked (miketrav included), then banned from the other site for preaching caution with respect to Song, and balance in viewing the causes and treatments of this condition. I suspect miketrav will experience the same if he pushes his "new" theory on the causes of his pain. This is a valuable testimonial that I hope remains on the other site for newbies, and those on the verge of seeing Song.
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