Semen Analysis - bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX Next-Gen

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dzidektancerz
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Semen Analysis - bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX Next-Gen

Post by dzidektancerz »

Hi All. I did semen analysis in hospital in special room. The test show Enterococcus. Now my GP clinic expect from me to bring another semen sample from home in special plastic cup.

I'm just wondering If it is right to do this? I read that semen needs to be checked within 3 hours. My clinic holding semen and than some guy transporting testing stuff everyday to hospital.

I'm concern that it will be too late to check if bacteria are present in my semen and what antibiotic is the best.

Am I right ?

Keywords: MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX NexGen Next Generation Sequencing NGS Next-Gen microgendx.com 1-855-208-0019 PCR
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Redub
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria

Post by Redub »

I did a test and literally mailed it to the lab the next day. It probably took 2 days minimum to reach the lab from there. They found bacteria so I'm not sure where that 3 hour thing came from.
Age:37 | Onset Age:36 | Symptoms: Constant urinary urge(8-10/10, various pain in pubic and perineum area(4/10) | Helped By: Heat, standing, paradoxical relaxation| Worsened By: sitting, laying down, diet soda, coffee, LSD, magic mushrooms| Other comments:
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria

Post by pundl »

Enterococcus has a very fast growth in room temperature. So, if you wait to long, the result can show a too high amount of bacteria. The test would be false positive concerning the cfu (colony forming units). Enterococcus in little amount is no problem. It's also very difficult to treat, because the fluoroquinolones don't really fit for these bacteria.
Age: 43 | Onset Age: 41 | Symptoms: pain in the perineum, pain in the penis | Helped By: sleeping, laying down, hot bath | Worsened By: sitting, long standing, full bladder, hours after ejaculation | Other comments:
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria

Post by webslave »

Tests that require mailed samples, or samples that sit for hours in a bottle at room temperature, are nonsense.

You will get false positives because even a couple of commensal bacteria can become large colonies.
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dzidektancerz
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria

Post by dzidektancerz »

That's what I thought. Thank You
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria

Post by webslave »

In fact after viewing the MicroGen Dx page on sample collection, I've emailed them a question about it. Will update this thread with their reply, if I get it.
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria MicroGen Dx

Post by webslave »

I asked the people at MicroGen Dx: Regarding sample collection: wouldn't even a few commensal bacteria be able to multiply and present a false picture of infection as the samples are transported to you at room temperature?

MicroGenDx responded to me:
Bacteria that come from inside the human body grow at very specific conditions, such as the human body temperature 37C and specific amounts of CO2, which cannot be found at room temperature. Thus, there is not need to worry about commensal bacteria growing significantly to a point to give you a false positive result.
But in another thread, we're discussing the MicroGen Dx results showing B. cereus, and the antibiotics they recommend to combat it. That's a bacterium that does grow at room temperature outside the human body (which is why you'll see warnings not to leave cooked rice sitting around at room temperature).

So their statement is untrue, prima facie.
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria MicroGen Dx

Post by webslave »

I told the people at MicroGen Dx the same thing, and they responded:
You are completely right, Bacillus cereus does grow at room temperature and is commonly found in the environment, but if you take the necessary precautions for cleaning and maintaining your cup and vials sterile, there should not be enough bacterial growth for us to identify as a pathogen since we only report everything that is above 2% of the total bacteria, which can be considered as pathogenic.
My comment: this looks like word salad, an attempt to bamboozle

Now, if the bacteria are inside your body, which seems to be common during food poisoning and the bacteria moving from the anal area into the urethra (most common in females), then there can be a sign of infection, so we would want the bacteria to be present for us to highlight it as pathogens. These bacteria will have adapted to the body temperature to grow at their best rate, so when being exposed to room temperature the bacteria will not have enough nutrients neither conditions to continue growing exponentially and give you a false positive.
My comment: complete nonsense, for instance if the bacterium is within a blob of semen, it will multiply without doubt

If these bacteria are then found in enough quantities in your sample and you have taken all the necessary precautions, then this will indicate the bacteria has been in your system and is most likely the pathogen causing an infection.
My comment: unlikely. Their entire business model is flawed. This reminds me of the late Paul Fugazzotto, a retired microbiologist from South Dakota, who charged people $25 a pop to test their mailed-in urine in his backyard lab. Fugazzotto’s theory was that modern medicine is on the wrong track, that internationally accepted laboratory microbiological techniques to test for UTIs are wrong, that most if not all cases of CPPS and IC are as a result of active bacterial infection, and that very long courses of antibiotics, sometimes lasting into the years, are required to maintain good health in IC and CPPS patients. Mailed-in urine samples, which allowed small numbers of bacteria to multiply to astronomical numbers during mailing, were then further cultured in broth for long periods so that even a single contaminant or innocuous bacterium would eventually show up as an “infection”. Simple scam.

If you still worry about it, you can refrigerate your sample until you send it to us, so that you prevent any foreign bacteria from exponentially growing.
My comment: Ermahgerd, so they acknowledge that I am right .... then ignore or gloss over the time the sample will spend in the mailing system, unrefrigerated!
Based on these responses, all I can say is avoid wasting money with these people.
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria

Post by Redub »

What's frustrating with MicrogenDX is how easy this problem would be to fix. They send you a package with a return box for the samples. Just add some insulation and a ice pack you freeze the night before returning the results. The tests are already 200 bucks or so. No one is going to complain if they bring the price up to 205.

I also kind of wish the test method they use would start being common place in regular labs. Seems like for any complicated or chronic case it should just be a standardized test to catch anything the regular PCR/STI tests (which only cover the common bacteria strains I believe) don't get.
Age:37 | Onset Age:36 | Symptoms: Constant urinary urge(8-10/10, various pain in pubic and perineum area(4/10) | Helped By: Heat, standing, paradoxical relaxation| Worsened By: sitting, laying down, diet soda, coffee, LSD, magic mushrooms| Other comments:
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Re: Semen Analysis for bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX

Post by webslave »

An update on the MDX people, who are running a company that IMO is little more than a scam: I noticed that my main competitor, Jill Heidi Osborne, who styles herself as "President, Interstitial Cystitis Network", is now actively promoting the MDX tests and receiving a lot of money for it. She's even set up a separate website (bladderhealth.org) to push their $200 tests.

Amusingly, Osborne herself took one of these MDX tests but elected NOT to treat the 3 strains of pathogenic bacteria the tests found because of fear of the side effects of the antibiotics! Yet she urges her readers to take the test, with a financial benefit to her for each test taken. And of course she knows full well that these bacteria are present in most healthy individuals, because like me she reads the latest research and knows that experts in this field state that the GU tract is not sterile, and she knows that MDX's collection methods skew results.

Seems unethical to you? Me too, but she has a history of unethical behavior, so not surprising. Osborne incurred my wrath several years ago when she tried to shake David Wise down for money, then badmouthed him when he refused (she told me, during one of our phone calls, that she'd called Wise and asked him for a commission for each patient she referred to him, but he refused, and ever since then she's had her knife out for him, criticizing him on her forums to make sure her members do not go to him). She runs a protection racket over at IC Network — "pay me, or I'll kill your business"

Osborne, a never-married 61-year old who still lives with her parents in their Santa Rosa CA house, has turned her little website into a very lucrative business, according to Dun and Bradstreet.

That's hundreds of times more revenue than this website survives on! Because I am not prepared to sell my soul, this website has a trivial revenue. I regularly consider shutting this site down because of the lack of revenue. The main sponsor, a Quercetin supplier, recently stopped its sponsorship due to Covid-19 and the increasing range of lookalike products, which led to shrinking profits. The site has no revenue at all now, other than the membership signups, which cover only hosting and administrative fees. Running this site is basically unpaid labor. I said to my wife yesterday that I'm having one of those episodes where I seriously consider folding my tent and leaving the field to the sharks and scammers.

Osborne has all sorts of revenue streams now, as you can see at jhosborne.com, some of which are:
  • Mail order supplements, vitamins, drinks and foodstuffs
  • Book sales
  • Annual membership fees for her quarterly magazine
  • Private coaching sessions with patients that cost $100/h
  • A $2.69 smartphone app that lists foods to avoid
  • Google ads on every page (ugh!)
It's a big business for her. Patients are the customers, the revenue source. Helping them actually recover is not really the point.

The ICN extracts money from its readers in numerous ways that we have strived to avoid. Instead, I give honest, fact-based advice, not platitudes and slogans. I try to get you well and send you on your way, not enmesh you in a confusing, never-ending situation where I can soak you for money. 🐷

The longer I stay in this field, the more ugly behavior I encounter. 😕
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Re: AUA 2020, some interesting studies

Post by JuanMilo »

Hey webslave, I found this post after having a frustrating discussion with someone on Reddit who’s completely convinced he has an infection due to test results from Microgen.

Anyway, check this out:
AdventHealth, which has 45 hospitals in nine states, terminated its Florida contract with MicroGen DX due to concerns about the validity of some of the 60,000 tests MicroGen had processed for the system because the lab left them at room temperature for days
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.usat ... 5222340002
microgen-dx.png
microgen-dx.png (19.16 KiB) Viewed 899 times

Dread to think that they could have potentially been doing that with men’s samples and then telling them to take all kinds of antibiotics on the back of them being completely contaminated.
Age: 30 | Onset Age: 21 | Symptoms: Pain in urethra, sore/engorged veins on penis, pain upon/after ejaculation, occasional ache in testicles/abdomen, pain at base of penis at times | Helped By: Warm baths, not ejaculating too much, possible intermittent help from internal and external physiotherapy | Worsened By: Sitting on hard surfaces, ejaculating too much (or ejaculating at all, really), sit ups and other strenuous exercises like weights
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Re: Semen Analysis - bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX Next-Gen

Post by webslave »

BAM! Told ya so! 😆

So obvious.

Alternate link to the same article
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/202 ... 222340002/


And it gets worse:
Testing Delays Snag MicroGen Diagnostics

The state cancelled its contract with MicroGenDX on May 15, Florida Bulldog reported.

“As with any lab, we do our due diligence to ensure the company will be able to provide reliable services before sending any samples,” said Jason Mahon, Communications Director at the Florida Division of Emergency Management. “Upon further interaction with this vendor, the Division determined that the state could not be 100% confident in the results that would come from this vendor, or with the processing speed, which is critical for COVID-19 testing.”

This came as AdventHealth, a non-profit health system based in Altamonte Springs, Fla., was having its own difficulties with MicroGenDX.

On May 16, AdventHealth announced that it had terminated a COVID-19 testing contract with an unnamed third-party lab, claiming that the provider was “unable to fulfill its obligation.” Multiple media outlets later revealed MicroGenDX as the third-party lab, and USA Today reported that the FDA had launched an investigation.

“This issue impacts more than 25,000 people throughout Central Florida,” stated an AdventHealth press release. “This situation has created unacceptable delays and we do not have confidence in the reliability of the tests.” AdventHealth said it would contact affected individuals about the need for retesting.

However, MicroGenDX CEO Rick Martin refuted the health system’s claims. “You can go after me because I didn’t meet your capacity and I couldn’t deliver on your drive-through testing because of things that I couldn’t control, but don’t attack the reliability of my test,” he told the Orlando Sentinel.

One factor in the dispute was the handling of patient samples, USA Today reported. Martin told reporters that representatives from AdventHealth had visited the lab and observed samples that were stored at room temperature. “[Martin] maintains the samples were still valid and that the delays were due to AdventHealth not providing proper patient data and the lab running out of plastic parts used in its equipment,” noted USA Today.

MicroGenDX CEO Martin has had his own legal troubles. According to USA Today, he was indicted by the US Department of Justice Middle District of Florida in 2017 for participating in a kickback scheme while working as a sales rep for Advanced BioHealing, Inc., of Westport, Conn. However, Martin was acquitted in a February 2019 trial, and Advanced BioHealing’s CEO Kevin Rakin settled the False Claims Act allegations for $2.5 million.
https://www.darkdaily.com/two-florida-c ... -scrutiny/

Something smells bad here, and it's not just the unrefrigerated samples I'm talking about! :shock:
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Re: Semen Analysis - bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX Next-Gen

Post by webslave »

A reporter asked Florida Governor DeSantis at a press conference on May 18 about the problems AdventHealth was having with [MicroGenDx]. DeSantis said the samples need to be refrigerated and that the firm “just let the samples be spoiled” – a characterization MicroGenDx’s CEO Rick Martin disputed. Despite the FDA’s guidance to refrigerate COVID-19 test samples, he insists the samples are valid up to thirty days without refrigeration, even in Florida heat.
https://www.floridabulldog.org/2020/05/ ... g-scandal/

Back in 2010, Martin had already run into trouble:
Martin was not a doctor or an non-physician provider. On or about November 22, 2010, Advanced BioHealing [his employer] banned Martin from entering into any Diversified Clinical Services clinics for a minimum period of ninety days.
But then it became much more serious.

Rick Martin, MicroGenDx CEO, who does not have any medical qualification, indicted in 2017:
Beginning on an unknown date, but by in or about late 2010, and continuing through on or about June 19, 2012, in the Middle District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant, RICHARD DAVID MARTIN, a/k/a "Doctor Martin," a/k/a "Doctor Rick," did knowingly and willfully combine, conspire, confederate, and agree together and with other persons both known and unknown to the grand jury, including Pearl, to:
  1. defraud the United States out of money and property and by impeding, impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the DHHS, through its agency the CMS in the administration of the Medicare Part B, by deceit, craft, and trickery; and
  2. commit the following offenses against the United States:
    1. mail fraud, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1341;
    2. health care fraud, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1347;
    3. soliciting and receiving remuneration, in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1320a-7b(b)(l); and
    4. offering and paying remuneration, in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1320a-7b(b)(2)
More here: https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/981606/download

Martin's employer at the time, Shire PLC, had to pay $350 MILLION to settle the case!
The settlement resolves allegations that Dermagraft salespersons [including Rick Martin] unlawfully induced clinics and physicians with lavish dinners, drinks, entertainment and travel; medical equipment and supplies; unwarranted payments for purported speaking engagements and bogus case studies; and cash, credits and rebates, to induce the use of Dermagraft.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/shire-pl ... llegations
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Re: Semen Analysis - bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX Next-Gen

Post by JuanMilo »

Wow, nice sleuthing there webslave! It makes me feel like going back to reddit to tell the infection obsessed guy about this, but honestly I want to stay away from that crowd like a bad case of COVID 😄. It reminds me of where I was at years ago when this started and I didn’t know what was going on. How frustrating it is dealing with people stuck firmly in that belief system they have an infection - then you have so called experts taking advantage like this on top of that... the guy I was talking to claimed his infectious disease specialist with over 35 years of training was working with microgen... says a lot about the state of treatment for this condition. Reminds me of the old story of the blind men feeling an elephant and having no clue in the slightest what it is 😁
Age: 30 | Onset Age: 21 | Symptoms: Pain in urethra, sore/engorged veins on penis, pain upon/after ejaculation, occasional ache in testicles/abdomen, pain at base of penis at times | Helped By: Warm baths, not ejaculating too much, possible intermittent help from internal and external physiotherapy | Worsened By: Sitting on hard surfaces, ejaculating too much (or ejaculating at all, really), sit ups and other strenuous exercises like weights
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Re: Semen Analysis - bacteria MicroGen Dx MicroGenDx MDX Next-Gen

Post by webslave »

Please read more about the utility of next generation sequencing here
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9257
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