Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

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Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

It has come to my attention that two urologists, Christopher Eden in the UK and Arnon Krongrad in the USA (see resume at prostatitissurgery.com), are now promoting the idea that men should have their prostates removed (radical laparoscopic prostatectomy) in order to cure CPPS.

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I quote from Krongrad's site:
Two years ago a man came to us with an eight-year history of chronic prostatitis. This man was completely relieved of his symptoms with a laparoscopic prostatectomy. The relief has endured for two years and there is no reason to believe it will return. Since then, other men have gotten relief for a broad range of severe and chronic symptoms. Among them are two men with 20-year histories of failed treatments. One of these two is an anesthesiologist and pain specialist who was “at the end of the road” until his laparoscopic prostatectomy.
Concerns and Objections

Let me list my concerns and objections to this development and the idea that prostate removal is a cure for CPPS:

1) Through Drs Dimitrakov and Shoskes and others, we know of men who have had prostate removal but no change in symptoms:
Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.prostatitis
From: Jordan Dimitrakov
Date: 1999/12/11
Subject: The pain is still there

I had just had a sobbing experience with a patient. Here it is.

He is a 46 year old man who has had severe pelvic pain for 8 years. He had urethral burning, dribbling and different degre of ejaculatory dysfunction. So, he came to see me 6 months ago and he was very distressed.

"Well, doc," he said, "I know I have chlamydia prostatitis and I know this is incurable."

At this time he had been prescribed a month's treatment of Roxythromycin by a dermatologist.

"I know you are the chlamydia man and you can tell me if I have it. But then," he went on, "I'm afraid I might have pased it on to my children. I want you to test them."

I agreed and he told me the whole story. He had been going to several urologists for the last 8 years and he had had multiple courses of antibiotics which did have some effect at the beginning. Then he began feeling this awful pain in the prostate area and the groin.

"And then I kept going to several urologists but they all told me "It's in your head. Go see a psychiatrist" So I did go and told the psychiatrist "Doc, I have a ball in the bladder" and he replied "Boy, you have a ball in your brain - you are not going anywhere." So, he put me in psychiatry - but I am no full and in a week I told him "Doc, the ball is gone" and so he said "Off you go!" But I know it's there".

That was six months ago. I did perform a PCR and it was positive. I performed a cystoscopy and an urethral stricture was discovered which was incised. A biopsy for IC histology was taken and it was positive for IC.

I suggested a treatment for IC but the patient was not convinced this was the problem. So, he went to see the Top Urologist in the country.

Now he came back again.

"Well, doc," he said, "the Top Urologist said I must have my prostate taken out - so I did it. But the PAIN IS STILL THERE. How is that possible? He told me that the prostate had several areas of granulamatous inflammation from the intraprostatic injections of Gentamycine and Ciprofloxacin I had 5 years ago. But I still had the feeling of a small ball - as large as part of rice inside my bladder. And I still pee too frequently."

I still insisted on treating IC. Who knows - maybe he'll think it over this time?

--
Best regards,
Jordan Dimitrakov, MD


Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.prostatitis
From: Daniel Shoskes <[email protected]>
Date: 1999/12/11
Subject: Re: The pain is still there

Presuming that his prostate was removed by a radical prostatectomy, this is the third case I am aware of where a man's symptoms were unchanged following the operation. Dr. Alexander presented the history of one patient whose pain did resolve after radical prostatectomy (there was cancer found as well).

Daniel Shoskes MD
UCLA
2) The prostatitissurgery website has all the hallmarks of a seat-of-the-pants operation:

Image

* Notice the slapdash aspects (missing data, misspellings underlined in red, hyperbolic statements underlined in blue) of a site thrown together in the last few weeks.

* Notice that this is a "clinical trial", which allows the doctor to operate (for financial gain) under the guise of "research", and where the patient must sign disclaimers waiving the right to seek legal restitution in the event of an unsuccessful outcome or even greater pain. Patients are effectively guinea pigs. Radical prostatectomy may turn out to be an option for a tiny minority of men with extremely intractable, prostate-centred cases, or it may not ... you won't know until a proper study is done and published in a peer reviewed journal. We are far from that situation at this stage. STAY AWAY UNTIL WE HAVE MUCH BETTER DATA. And remember that reputable studies have found that the prostates of men with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome are essentially normal.

* Notice the association with entities like the Prostatitis Foundation and the Manila Clinic (Dick Feliciano), both of which I regard with the deepest suspicion inasmuch as that they represent the very worst aspects of the prostatitis scene.

* Notice the naming of the NIDDK on the page as if to associate the site somehow with the US government. However, the NIDDK has nothing to do with this site or doctor, as far as I am aware.

3) The men who are undergoing this surgery are not men who have tried the protocols we recommend at this site. They are the sort of men who have only tried the typical treatments meted out by the typical uro: antibiotics and alpha-blockers. To go straight to radical, life-changing surgery before trying our recommendations of a range of conservative and highly successful treatment regimes is nothing short of insanity.

4) Even though Dr Krongrad styles himself as a doyen of laparoscopic prostate surgery, he had never done it just 10 years ago: "Dr. Krongrad observed his first laparoscopic prostatectomy in Paris in 1999" (from aventurahospital.com). And Dr Eden apparently performed his first laparoscopic radical prostatectomy in the UK in 2000. The whole concept is new to medicine, like a new (and lucrative!) toy with which they all want to play. Beware of surgeons when they find a new technique or instrument! They will explore any avenue they can in the hunt for profit. If they can get chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients to submit to surgery usually reserved for prostate cancer patients, the rewards are huge, absolutely enormous. This will be especially helpful for them now that more conservative approaches to prostate cancer (hormones, watchful waiting, radiation etc) are becoming more popular, thereby drying up their lucrative prostatectomy income streams. :money: So don't become some surgeon's patsy!

5) Krongrad and to a lesser extent Eden are actively promoting this surgery on the internet. Krongrad is involved in several websites (e.g. prostatitis.ning.com aka "The Prostatitis Social Network"), where he and the infamous Dr Feliciano answer patients questions in ways that lead patients to seek treatment with them.

6) Lastly, but most importantly, prostate removal can have very serious side-effects:
Risks of radical prostatectomy

The risks after surgery are similar to those of any major surgery. They include:

• Impotence
• Heart attack
• Stroke
• Blood clots in the legs
• Infection at the incision site
• Post-operative bleeding
• Death (rare)

Recovery time for laparoscopic prostatectomy

The procedure usually takes 3-4 hours but can last up to 8 hours. Average hospital stay is two days. Unlike open surgery where the catheter stays in for 2-3 weeks, laparoscopic prostatectomy patients often have their Foley catheters removed on the seventh day after surgery. Recovery time to normal activity averages 2-4 weeks.

Side effects of radical prostatectomy

Common side effects of a radical prostatectomy include:

• Impotence (51 - 96% impotence rates have been shown)
• Incontinence
Really guys, you'd have to be half-way crazy to consider this surgery until absolutely every other thing has been tried, including a full visit to Dr Wise at Stanford.

Bottom line is that this is simply another thing to avoid at all costs, in my fairly well educated opinion. :icon8:
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by noodlebike »

They are not promoting it at all. That is a slanderous accusation. They both make it clear that it is a last resort after all other options exhausted. I suggest you visit and read thoroughly their sites.

theprostateclinic.com/prostatitis.php

They are telling of their experiences so far with LRP and that between them both they have given at least 7/7 men total relief. That just means those men they operated on all had their pain localised to the prostate, and that the pre operative diagnostic tests done on them were obviously succesful at differentiating between true prostatitis & a more "vague" description of CPPS.
Christopher Eden clearly states on his site that it is a last resort, and more importantly states there is no gaurantee of a cure. So far Christopher Eden has performed 5 LRP's for prostatitis (well over a thousand for cancer), all of which *have* given total relief to those in question. I would be very interested in how many *definate* failures of this method you can provide to counter their good work so far-not just anecdotal cases. Interestingly, in 4 of the 5 men he operated on, previously undetected cancer was found. I bet they were double relieved when they realised they no longer had prostatitis or cancer. It also brings into question the possible link between prostatitis and cancer.

If my post gets deleted, I will know your true motive.
Age:37 | Onset Age:32 | Symptoms: Golf ball feeling in anus, pain in prostate. | Helped By: EDTA Protocol (eliminated urinary symptoms), Ibuprofen, Paracetamol, walking, Theraseat. | Worsened By: Sitting to long, ejaculation.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

noodlebike wrote:They are not promoting it at all. That is a slanderous accusation. They both make it clear that it is a last resort after all other options exhausted. I suggest you visit and read thoroughly their sites.
I have read the sites, and in my opinion they are promotional (even by their very existence), and my statement is not slanderous. You clearly do not know the meaning of the word "slander".
They are telling of their experiences so far with LRP and that between them both they have given at least 7/7 men total relief. That just means those men they operated on all had their pain localised to the prostate, and that the pre operative diagnostic tests done on them were obviously succesful at differentiating between true prostatitis & a more "vague" description of CPPS.
  • This is anecdotal "evidence", not published science.
  • There is no such thing as a differentiation between "true prostatitis" and "vague" CPPS
Christopher Eden clearly states on his site that it is a last resort, and more importantly states there is no gaurantee of a cure.
Then why even offer it, and why have a website to promote it? This sort of thing needs to be the subject of a properly organized study, not offered for profit by mavericks.
So far Christopher Eden has performed 5 LRP's for prostatitis (well over a thousand for cancer), all of which *have* given total relief to those in question.
That's meaningless:
  • Tiny sample size
  • Unpublished claims and therefore not more than merely anecdotal
  • We have seen this numerous times before: a handful of men claiming total cure via this or that procedure. It always turns out the same way -- badly.
I would be very interested in how many *definate* failures of this method you can provide to counter their good work so far-not just anecdotal cases.
I have no anecdotal evidence to counter their anecdotal evidence. But the uros who post here know of failures to cure chronic prostatitis using prostate removal surgery. That's enough for me.
Interestingly, in 4 of the 5 men he operated on, previously undetected cancer was found. I bet they were double relieved when they realised they no longer had prostatitis or cancer. It also brings into question the possible link between prostatitis and cancer.
This makes me even more suspicious of the evidence presented by Eden, because of the 1999 Berger study of 97 patients with chronic prostatitis. 368 biopsies showed no cancers at all. The comment made in the study was: "In our relatively large patient cohort we expected to find some incidental cancers of the prostate but none was noted ...".

I suggest to you that the men in Eden's sample had symptoms from their cancers, and were not true chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients at all.
If my post gets deleted, I will know your true motive.
You are warned not to post in this belligerent manner again. :boese:
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by carld »

Noodle...

For someone who has joined this site because you are a sufferer of CP/CPPS looking for help ( I presume)...Why would you come off on your first post attacking webslave?

So go visit Dr. Eden in the UK and have your prostate removed and get back to us and let us know how great you feel afterwards...

Mark has helped many men find a safe way to slowly get better through the many protocols that are listed in this site. I'm one of them!!! Posting a remark that webslaves's opinion, which is also backed up by the above medical references is "slanderous"... is a joke...really :lol: Most posts by Webslave...if they are medical will have some sort of medical literature to back it up, including this thread...

Having your prostate removed for CP/CPPS related issues as a last resort is so radical and drastic. That's why it's called a radical prostatectomy...I don't care if it's by a robot or a surgeon's hand...Still very risky!

I have been posting here for over two years regularly and I have read a thousand or more posts from men who are hurting and looking to get help. You are the first person, who, after reading your post, I have no desire to help.

BTW...That link you have in your thread is old school and says nothing about pelvic floor dysfunction and how it is linked to CP/CPPS and anxiety control etc...No cutting edge info in that link at all!!! :mad:
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Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by mikietrav »

The fda has the study listed on there website http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00775515
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

Notice how patients in this non-randomized trial are expected to PAY for treatment (see the application form).

This means it is little more than a cover to continue business as usual.

You are advised to stay away until the results of this trial are published (if indeed they ever get published, which is doubtful*), and then wait further to see if the results, should they be positive, are replicated at another center by other doctors.

* 2021 Update: they never were published ... predictably.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by drydoc »

As a prostate cancer survivor who underwent a robotic radical prostatectomy in June, 2007 THEN developed chronic pelvic pain, I can tell you this is bogus. I never had pain prior to my surgery. Another member of this forum had radiation treatment for prostate cancer then developed CPPS. Ask the women with IC who had their bladders removed and still have pain. I agree wholeheartedly with webslave. Sounds like the Pudendal Nerve Entrapment surgery part deux.
Age: | Onset Age: 53 | Symptoms: rectal, gluteal, hip pain | Helped By: hot baths, quercetin, pain meds, sleep | Worsened By: prolonged sitting, anxiety, catastrophic thinking
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

mikietrav wrote:The FDA has the study listed on there website http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00775515
It's not a FDA website, it's a NIH website. Please note that getting a "clinical trial" listed is not difficult. It does not mean NIH approval AT ALL. The "Sponsors and Collaborators" of this trial is not the government but "The Krongrad Institute", as it admits in the text. The US Government is not supporting this trial financially, and it does not approve of what Krongrad is doing by listing his trial. On the front page of clinicaltrials.gov you'll see:
ClinicalTrials.gov is a registry of federally and privately supported clinical trials conducted in the United States and around the world.
I see this trial as nothing more than an advertisement for Krongrad.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

From another forum, a prostate cancer patient writes :
Arnon Krongrad -- I was wondering if anyone has heard of this guy? I posted a comment on another site and he emailed. He has called me twice. He seems very interested in me. I find it strange he has enough time to keep wanting to see how I am doing. I googled him and I have found nothing bad about him, only good. Anyone know anything about him. He does laparascopic removal of prostates.
I think this person's instinctive reaction is spot on.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

So we now have an update from Dr Krongrad's own website. The patient called Maupassant, real name Chris, who refused to join our forum and sent me an insulting email telling me I'm a crook for charging an entrance fee, has posted his story on Krongrad's forum. He was operated on by one of the surgeons described above, Dr Eden, in the UK. Here are the edited highlights:
Chris wrote:On January 2009, I underwent Laparoscopic Radical Prostatectomy (LRP) surgery for chronic and intractable prostate pain. Like most long-term sufferers, I can’t remember the exact number of years the pain had lived inside me. But if somebody put a gun to my head, I would say at least 20 years.

Making the decision to have my prostate removed wasn’t easy. I thought long and hard. If I could pinpoint the one deciding factor in the decision-making process, it was this, “If the LRP leaves me impotent, at least I won’t be in any pain. Or if the LRP leaves me in some way incontinent, at least I won’t be in any pain.”

So I made a deal with myself: I’ll get rid of the prostate, in exchange for a pain free life.

Wrong. Sixteen months on, I still suffer chronic pain between my legs. What’s striking is the pain seems to originate from the site of the prostate, before radiating down each leg—sometimes as far as the knee. Also, I have been experiencing intermittent blood loss from the end of my penis, as well as poor urine flow.

Last month, my urologist—who strongly advised against prostate removal—ordered a cystoscopy. A metal clip was found lying inside my bladder, close to the urethral join. My urologist also observed that the urethral join was “too tight”. I have since undergone corrective surgery, to remove the metal clip—a leftover from the original LRP. At the same time, the urologist dilated my urethra, which has improved urine flow markedly

Unfortunately, the pain continues unabated. I now take more pain-killers than pre-surgery.

So for the men out there considering LRP, think very carefully before deciding on surgery.

I should add, that Dr Krongrad didn’t carry out my LRP. It was done in the UK.
Chris mentions Duke Bahn:
Chris wrote:I also flew out to see Dr Bahn in Ventura, but unfortunately his injections didn't work for me..


He then questions Dr Krongrad:
Chris wrote:What about blood coming out of the end of my penis 1 year after surgery? Is this normal too? Some mornings there was large splashes of blood on my underwear, some days nothing. I took pictures, and showed my urologist. He freaked out and ordered an immediate cystoscopy. I think I know the answer.
Krongrad gives a vague answer, and Chris replies:
Chris wrote:Seeing you don't want to answer my question of blood seeping out of my penis, I'll answer it myself. The blood was caused by the metal clip, left behind from the original LRP. This theory is supported by the surgeon who carried out the corrective surgery.

I've had no bood loss since the second surgery.
Krongrad calls Chris's case "complex". Chris replies:
Chris wrote:Arnon, I don't think my case is complex at all. It's really quite simple. So there's no need for these imaginative theories you are putting forward as a reason for my 16 months of post-operative pain (is this a world record?).

Here's a clue. The excruciating pain started in the recovery room, where the nurse recorded that my "buttocks were clenched", and I was "screaming and shouting". I have the notes in front of me right now. Looking at them, it's like looking at my autopsy report. It's really quite disturbing, because my mind goes back to those awful minutes while I was in recovery. Now there's a misnomer.

Here's another clue. If you re-read my original post, I highlight one word — originate. I do that for a reason. Because that's the exact spot where the pain originates--every day, every night.. It was the same in the recovery room. The words I use in my letter to the surgeon who carried out the LRP, were, "it felt as though my prostate had been ripped out with a pair of pliers."

Sixteen months on, I stand by that rather crude description. But that's exactly how it felt, and although I have managed to quell the pain since--with the help of numerous pain-killers--the site of the prostate is still where the pain originates.

So when you think about it, and you put all the evidence together, it's really quite simple what has happened. The operation was botched.
More waffle from Krongrad, and Chris responds:
Chris wrote:Arnon, were you Bill Clinton's spin doctor in another life? You seem determined to lessen the impact of anything negative concerning LRP surgery, or regarding your medical colleagues for that matter.

Here's an example (I don't have the time to list them all). You write, "Of course, you have brushed up against varying qualities of doctors."

Brushed up? That means a "momentary incident". A "passing glance", " a graze" or "something that doesn't last."

None of these phrases are correct in the context I'm describing -- and thousands of other prostatitis sufferers for that matter. Many of these men with c.p. have been literally tortured in their endless quest to find some relief from their symptoms. Others have been abused on a lesser scale, by careless and incorrect treatment methods put in place by incompetent and uncaring urologists. These have lasting effects on the patient, both physically and psychologically. They are not passing glances.

I know a patient who has recently returned from the US, whose condition has been made significantly worse after treatment. I know another patient who had an LRP 15 months ago, and is now suffering significant pain--this is after being pain-free for 12 months post LRP. He may need to have a second operation, like I did.

So there is no need to dress every case up with a pink ribbon. If mistakes are made, surgeons should have the courage to admit their mistakes, so the next generation can benefit. The problem is doctors and surgeons have egos--some as big as the Grand Canyon, and they are unwilling to admit their mistakes. This is something I myself have found out.

It's bad for business.

Krongrad goes on the defensive:
Arnon Krongrad wrote:There is no cause to take things personally or to make personal attacks.
Response:
Chris wrote:Wouldn't you take it personally? If you had opted on radical surgery to remove a critical organ inside your body--a final and life-changing surgery designed to end all pain coming from that organ, only to find yourself in worse pain than pre-surgery? I think you would take it very personally. I doubt you'd be sending your surgeon any Christmas cards.

I have not made any personal attacks against you, as you suggest. Why would I? I have made some astute observations on your clever use of language. These are not personal attacks. They are observations. It's not your fault I find myself in the difficult position I am in--although I must admit that reading David Radford's story had some small effect on me, and the four "success stories" from my own surgeon. Interestingly, he said I couldn't speak to any of his patients personally. Hmmm...

But these stories were not the deciding factor in my decision-making.

So let's try and keep the dialogue on this thread crisp and to the point. I derive no pleasure from this thread. I would have been overjoyed to have been another LRP "success story", and living a pain-free life. Unfortunately, I now find myself with another set of problems--both medical and legal.

The deciding factor in putting this thread up was to warn other frightened and vulnerable men considering LRP surgery, that not all patients having surgery end up walking into the sunset, holding their girlfriend's hand. It was to warn them that not all surgeons have the same degree of skill. Not all surgeries are successful. Some are botched. Some patients are made worse. Some are made better.

As a thinking, sentient human being, I would hope a thread like this, warning your fellow man of what might happen post-surgery, is something you would applaud.
In another thread, he assaults Krongrad directly:
Chris wrote:I think for the first time, your real personality and thinking is slowly beginning to unravel in front of the readers' eyes. From my side of the computer screen, it's a personality and thinking which seems to eerily fit the profile of the uncaring urologist; the urologist who demands the prostatitis sufferer submit to his antiquated and out-dated thinking. A profile that prostatitis patients see all too often.
Chris is then chided by a Krongrad sockpuppet, or perhaps a Krongrad-admiring potential patient. Chris is having none of it:
Chris wrote:You see Arnon as your "saviour", the caring surgeon willing to put you out of your long-suffering misery. Maybe he is. You read the testimonials of his patients. Your confidence grows by the day. Everything is starting to look rosy. You see light at the end of the tunnel. Then suddenly, Chris sticks his ugly head above the parapet, and posts a disturbing thread about his "failed LRP". More disturbing posts about his shrunken penis. Not only that, the infidel Chris, this bitter and twisted man who has nothing positive to add to the debate, has the temerity to interrogate your "saviour", the good doctor K, the very person who is going to end your suffering.

So my "bad news" has shaken your confidence. Bad news is not something you want to hear. You want to hear good news--more positive testimonials. But maybe there is no happy ending after, you're starting to think, just an exchange for one set of symptoms for another. So you turn your anger on the "Bearer of bad news." This is evident when you ask "why am I here?"

To answer your question: it was to post a truthful account of my failed LRP. Not only did it fail, the surgeon and his accomplice made my condition worse. I have since undergone further surgery to try and correct the first.
In yet another thread, Chris reports:
My penis was made smaller by LRP. My girlfriend will confirm this. I noticed immediately the catheter was removed. I thought (naively), that normal size would return in due time. But it hasn't.

I phoned the hospital about 2 months after surgery and complained; one of the "special nurses" attached to the surgeon who carried out the LRP, told me, "one or two other men had also complained about penis shrinkage".

Oh really? Now you tell me.

Since then, I have spoken to 3 other urologists, 2 of them prostate surgeons, and all three concur that penis shrinkage "does happen"--though they were careful to add, "But not in every patient". One of the surgeons couldn't look me in the eye when he told me, he had to look at the floor
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Re: Prostatitis surgery

Post by robertpagen »

That thread should be required reading before any man gets surgery.
Age: 43 | Onset Age: 17 | Symptoms: previously: constant urgency, premature ejaculation, burning at tip of penis, pelvic ache current: semi annual flares. | Helped By: PT, yoga, stretch, keeping warm(long johns) boxer briefs, regular sleep routine | Worsened By: cystoscopy, antibiotics (fluoroquinolones) alcohol, coffee, stress, masturbation, cold
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by mikey33 »

Eden did not do Chris' surgery. It was a first-time surgeon. That is HUGE. That was his mistake for taking that chance. You HAVE TO consider the surgeon and their expertise before getting involved in this.

You need to also post Krongrad's remarks. I understand you want people to see both sides, but doesn't help by only showing negative.
33 year old suffering from prostatitis (currently in "remission"). | Symptoms: burning urination (always there), burning urethra, sore testicles, burning ejaculation, throbbing penis after ejaculation, frequent urination, electric-type shocks in rectum. Currently take C/Quercetin from TwinLabs, D-3, Zinc, Pro-biotic, Zoloft, Nexium (as needed). Have tried Doxy, Amoxicillin, Zithromax, etc. None worked. Also tried pelvic floor PT but was a waste of time for my situation.

Best treatment has been ejaculation at least once every two days. It has held overall symptoms at bay.
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Jay
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by Jay »

mikey33 wrote:You need to also post Krongrad's remarks. I understand you want people to see both sides, but doesn't help by only showing negative.
This is strictly my personal opinion, not Webslave's, but I don't understand how one can show the positive side of an entirely negative topic. 90%+ cases of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome are non-bacterial. We have come to the point where science understands that prostate pain is most always a symptom of CPPS, rather than a cause. Women also have nearly the same condition as we males, minus the prostate factor. This (among other reasons) is why Chronic Prostatitis became the more appropriately named Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome.

Given the above, it seems distasteful at best that anyone would propose prostatectomies for chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients. There is no widely accepted evidence that it does anything beneficial. I see it as preying upon the desperate, much as I do with the proponents of PNE surgery.
I am not a physician. This is not medical advice. Consult your doctor!

Age: 26 Onset Age: 17 Symptoms: Shooting, nerve-like pains throughout the penis, which abruptly hit and leave. Testicular pain, perineum pain, burning/irritative urination, extended pain after ejaculation. Occasionally, some allodynia or ache in the coccyx/sacrum/thigh/buttocks/legs. Diagnosis: Pelvic floor dysfunction, degenerated lumbar disk, and mildly herniated lumbar disk. Helped By: Physical therapy, pain management doctor, hot baths, therapy pool, stretching regimen, breathing exercises, relaxation, distraction. Worsened By: Arousal/ejaculation (worst), constipation, panicking/obsessing, other triggers depend upon current symptoms. Tests/Prior Treatments: Too many antibiotics to count, multiple urine tests (all normal), testicular ultrasound (normal), bladder and renal ultrasound (normal), lumbar and pelvic MRI with and w/o contrast (revealed disk problems), Elavil 25mg (caused retention), Flomax 0.4mg.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by webslave »

mikey33 wrote:Eden did not do Chris' surgery. It was a first-time surgeon. That is HUGE.
Email me as to why you think that is true.

Chris was a patient of Eden's, from what I have read.
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Re: Prostatitissurgery.com, Arnon Krongrad, Christopher Eden

Post by mikey33 »

Jay wrote:
mikey33 wrote:You need to also post Krongrad's remarks. I understand you want people to see both sides, but doesn't help by only showing negative.
This is strictly my personal opinion, not Webslave's, but I don't understand how one can show the positive side of an entirely negative topic. 90%+ cases of chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome are non-bacterial. We have come to the point where science understands that prostate pain is most always a symptom of CPPS, rather than a cause. Women also have nearly the same condition as we males, minus the prostate factor. This (among other reasons) is why Chronic Prostatitis became the more appropriately named Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome.

Given the above, it seems distasteful at best that anyone would propose prostatectomies for chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome patients. There is no widely accepted evidence that it does anything beneficial. I see it as preying upon the desperate, much as I do with the proponents of PNE surgery.
Based on what? I have spoken to two different men, both operated on by Krongrad, that had NON-Bacterial issues and they say that he "changed and or saved his life for the better." Again, I am not saying that everyone with chronic prostatitis / chronic pelvic pain syndrome will have the same outcome, but to say it is "distasteful" is a bit overboard, IMO.
33 year old suffering from prostatitis (currently in "remission"). | Symptoms: burning urination (always there), burning urethra, sore testicles, burning ejaculation, throbbing penis after ejaculation, frequent urination, electric-type shocks in rectum. Currently take C/Quercetin from TwinLabs, D-3, Zinc, Pro-biotic, Zoloft, Nexium (as needed). Have tried Doxy, Amoxicillin, Zithromax, etc. None worked. Also tried pelvic floor PT but was a waste of time for my situation.

Best treatment has been ejaculation at least once every two days. It has held overall symptoms at bay.
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