DR Song in China

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webslave
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Post by webslave »

maupassant wrote:Feliciano once invited me back to his multi-million dollar mansion in swanky Dasmarinas village and introduced me to his Canadian wife, along with his cache of guns and hand grenades. An interesting guy. I liked him. But he didn't cure me.
The comment above was taken from another forum. I'll let the readers of this thread deduce how this comment may relate to another comment I made above.

It's a remarkable way of discouraging ex-patients from going public and complaining: show them your arms cache.
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Post by webslave »

One of the moderators has the following quote in her/his signature
Prostatitis is truely: "a wastebasket of clinical ignorance", Stamey TA.
That quote dates from 1980‡ and is absurd today. Using it now completely ignores the tons of excellent research we have seen in the last 10 years. But of course, it's the sort of quote that people use to manipulate other people.


‡ Stamey TA. Pathogenesis and treatment of urinary tract infections. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins, 1980.
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Post by webslave »

Someone asked this question, which I thought was telling:
I was reading the testimonials on dr. song's website and I couldn't find one person that was 100% better after the treatment. all cases seem to quote being 90% better and virtually all of them have returned for second and third visits. has anyone heard of anyone that received one course of treatment and was 100% better?
Even "Rob" who claims he is "cured" is planning to see Song again for further treatment. "Debbie"reports that most ex-patients who were contacted by her for testimonials were angry at being contacted and complained to Song. Two things occurred to me here:

1) If a person is cured by a doctor of a dreadful, painful condition, why would they resent any reminder of that cure and refuse to give a testimonial? I can understand them feeling that way if they were not cured.

2) Who gave Debbie the task of trawling around for testimonials, and supplied her with a list of contact details? She claims it was another patient, but it is far more likely to have been Song, using Debbie in a recruitment drive.
Last edited by webslave on Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by graeme »

If these quotes are from the same website I first visited on my original onset of this it thrives on the fear factor and infection rules their site :sad:

I actually fell for some of their claims 7 years ago which are still on there now :sad:
Age:33 | Onset Age:19 | Symptoms:burning urethra, deep sore stinging around the perineum, dribbling | Helped By:when flare starts deep relaxing over a toilet to let out dribbling urine, hot bath, rubbing a heat cream on the perineum, Tens with a pad on the perineum, running, medication (solpadol) for pain. Current treatment: PT. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, ejaculation, sometimes alcohol but I risk it. Been feeling a lot better last 6 months about 85% with a few flares lasting about 5 days. No longer having PT. Stretching every other night and I believe time is also a big factor for me
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Post by Sleeper Service »

I have decided that it really needs to be a case of live and let live. If they want to advertise a treatment then fair enough - caveat emptor after all. All I will do now is correct them where they tell outright untruths, the rest is up to the boards' membership.

Although one wonders at the capabilities of the admin given that the board is still being hit by spambots. I mean it's not hard to block bot membership but they don't seem to have worked out how to yet.
Age 52: Onset 2006 and bouts on and off since then. See posts for details.
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Post by webslave »

Yes, I agree, Sleeper. In fact that forum performs a useful function because it siphons off those men who are absolutely obsessed with infection, despite all available evidence.

Funny story: the user "maupassant", currently paying $20K (or whatever) to be tortured by Song in China for a month, is now saying that if this treatment does not work he'll be "floating down the Yangtze". This is the same guy who wrote me an expletive-laden email objecting to paying $20 to join our forum, saying that we are running a "scam"! So he'll kill himself if the $20,000 treatment from some quack in China doesn't work, but he'll not pay a tiny amount for the keys to a real cure. What a total idiot.

But then, this is also a guy who fell for the Feliciano spiel a few years back, so he's got a clown's track record. :jester:
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Post by carld »

webslave wrote:Yes, I agree, Sleeper. In fact that forum performs a useful function because it siphons off those men who are absolutely obsessed with infection, despite all available evidence.

Funny story: the user "maupassant", currently paying $20K (or whatever) to be tortured by Song in China for a month, is now saying that if this treatment does not work he'll be "floating down the Yangtze". This is the same guy who wrote me an expletive-laden email objecting to paying $20 to join our forum, saying that we are running a "scam"! So he'll kill himself if the $20,000 treatment from some quack in China doesn't work, but he'll not pay a tiny amount for the keys to a real cure. What a total idiot.

But then, this is also a guy who fell for the Feliciano spiel a few years back, so he's got a clown's track record. :jester:
Or maybe the clown just likes to have dudes put fingers in his ass :shock: Oops, did I just say that :wink: Sorry :lol:

In the end who cares what Song does any way. We can't save everyone from all the perils of the CP/CPPS universe. If Men like us are diligent, they will find their way to this site and the SP route. I remember doing searches for this condition after my onset and the SP information was practically the first thing I came accross which then led me to this site. It took me few months before I accepted that there was no magic bullet and the rest is history for me. Yes, I would like to be able to help every man that gets CP/CPPS. But they have to help them selves by researching extensively and I think most Men who have joined this site have done so and are grateful. :smile:
I am not a medical doctor. Please fill out your signature (click here) ☼ ☼ My Starter List for new members
I encourage anxiety prone UCPPS people to consider L-Theanine
Age, 44 onset age 37 Feb 2006 Freq. need to urinate. Sensation of having to urinate soon after going. Perineum discomfort/burning/tightness, pubic area discomfort @ times,poor urine stream, post urine dripping/spray. All symptoms have improved with my protocol. At the worst I give it a 1 to 2 on irritation and discomfort and frequency. Helps: Elavil 5mg for anxiety and mast cell protection, (will only take it as needed) self internal PT as needed, stretching, walking, stairmaster cardio workout and light weights, reducing stress, moment to moment relaxation, deep breathing relaxation and using a Theracane. Makes worse: sitting for long periods, stress, over focusing on it. Currently 95%-98% recovered. Stay positive, relaxed and control your anxiety.
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Post by graeme »

The shame is when you search google (prostatitis) that site comes up well ahead of this one :sad:
Age:33 | Onset Age:19 | Symptoms:burning urethra, deep sore stinging around the perineum, dribbling | Helped By:when flare starts deep relaxing over a toilet to let out dribbling urine, hot bath, rubbing a heat cream on the perineum, Tens with a pad on the perineum, running, medication (solpadol) for pain. Current treatment: PT. | Worsened By:sitting, stressing over it, ejaculation, sometimes alcohol but I risk it. Been feeling a lot better last 6 months about 85% with a few flares lasting about 5 days. No longer having PT. Stretching every other night and I believe time is also a big factor for me
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Post by webslave »

The only way we can change that is to get other sites to link to us, easier said than done.
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Post by scoobysnacks »

I read both sites. The fact a doctor could not find any infection and I know what sore muscles feel like due to my extensive athletic background, the SP approach was a no brainer. Sad, it took me a year to embrace it fully. I thought, eh, muscles, they will go back to normal eventually.

Anyways, I just can't understand why men would even consider paying someone 20K to inject the prostate gland, and yes, my pain was very bad at one time, and even then, no f'ing way.....in my opinion the prostate gland is the center of a mans sexual universe....sticking a needle in something that is already in pain makes no sense, now cancer--totally different topic.

Anyways, webslave you have much more energy than I. I can't bring myself to even go on that board and fight it. I dont know where you get your energy to help so many people....and this site truly does.

I've been feeling pretty damn good the last 4 weeks....I am even working out again....the SP just takes time....

Take care,

Ss
Age:29 | Onset Age: 25.5 | Symptoms: Initially burning in prostate/perineum, burning in urethra, uncontrollable muscle contraction before urinating, dual ache in groin, left testicle pain, feeling of golf ball in rectum, soarness in rectum, and muscle spasms, now mainly very mild urinary tract inflammation, burning mildly after ejaculation, some days after physical activity involuntary mild muscle contraction before urinating | Helped By: .5 mg of Ativan, Aleve (naproxen), quercetin, alcohol in large quantities (vodka and soda), stretching, walking, internal massage the perineum area and levators. | Worsened By: sitting, weightraining, jogging, coffee, caffeine in general, alcohol bothered me at first, overdoing sex
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FJT's response to me

Post by webslave »

Going through my inbox deleting private messages (PMs), I came across user FJT's message to me after I asked him if I could reveal his comments about Song (see a page back in this thread). He replied:
fjt wrote:I agree with you its important info. I know he can't do anything. Even the contract itself is a joke. You should hear the english! However this will result in me getting involved again in this whole mess. Loads of questions - many from his spies in this forum. After that there will come the emails - also plants. It really snowballs believe me. This is NOT a conspiracy theory - it happens. I only came back this forum because this s**t was happening again to a friend I made during the treatment in Changsha. He's getting emails from Song's spies at the moment. One of the key things in my recovery has been to stay away from the forums and getting involved. I don't know if I want to deal with this now. It sounds selfish I know. Posting it in the members area won't help. You can bet your bottom dollar there are members here who are affiliated with Song. They don't have to post - they might just be monitoring what is being said.

Let me think about it for a while. I hope you understand
I then decided to go ahead and reveal the information without his permission because its importance to the readership outweighed his privacy concerns, in my opinion.
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Post by Sleeper Service »

The thing that gets me is this:

If I was really, really an honest evangelist for something then I wouldn't baulk at paying $20 and putting forth a cogent argument for this treatment yet all these 'cured' patients - and note that none of them claim to be cured first time - only suddenly appear on a recently created website.

I have also thoroughly checked the female IC forums for Debbie, mentions of Dr Song, Changsha, China or Rob and found nothing. Given the claims that she used to hang around these forums I find this somewhat odd.

So we have people recently 'cured' suddenly popping up on a website with no previous history - no record of the treatments they endured, the dead ends, the steps forward, the twists and turns of this condition - claiming that this man has cured them. No record, no posts, then a flood.

It just doesn't tie up.
Age 52: Onset 2006 and bouts on and off since then. See posts for details.
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Post by webslave »

One of our members, ockerdoc, posted this on the other forum. I'd be happy for him to comment on it here:
ockerdoc wrote:I'm also a recent patient of Dr Song and have been in recovery for 1 month. I'm still hopeful I will get better but at the moment I'm still having some problems. I did improve initially when I came back for about a week but then all symptoms came back including backache, poor erection and libido and some abdominal and penile pain. I don't know if most of this pain is part of the inflammation process that I have to recover from. I've done a culture of my semen and there is a coliform present (as well as being packed with normal bacteria) which wasn't there when I left so I don't know how it got in my pelvis. Dr Song thinks bacteria can travel there from different sites around the body but your immune system should be able to fight it off and it may not cause inflammation. Anyway the coliform is quite sensitive so I'm taking ciprofloxacin to see if my symptoms improve as well as massaging my prostate just in case it is in there. I just don't know at the moment and I want to give it the full 3 months to see if I am cured or not. I think I may have some other neuromuscular problems also as i've been doing lots of yoga and the stretching seems to help with right-sided abdominal pain.
This post raises the possibility that Song's many injections into the prostate may have introduced a coliform into the prostate. :shock:
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Post by scotsman »

The reply right under it speaks volumes as well - and it's from one of their more active posters:
please do not delete this. this is why I'm paranoid!
Not medical advice: Read my progress to date : Read about my W-A clinic visit

Age: 41 CPPS: 7 Yrs Recovery Status: 90% Symptoms: Pain around perineum Makes Worse: Tension, sitting Makes Better: Stretching, triggerpoint therapy, relaxation, Tramadol (50mg)
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Post by Sleeper Service »

I would like ockerdoc to comment too. His story is listed as a 'success' under Song's site - despite this apparently not being the case - so I would like to hear it from him first hand.

The sad thing is it seems to reflect something I think Dr Shoskes had mentioned - about two thirds of patients get relief from general prostate massage but the effect is only long lasting in one third.

In other words, Song's treatment is no better or no worse than any other method of prostate massage.
Age 52: Onset 2006 and bouts on and off since then. See posts for details.
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