Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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Botox used to ease pelvic pain
Tuesday December 9, 2003

Australian doctors have found a new place to inject the anti-wrinkle drug Botox - and the treatment is bringing relief to women suffering pelvic pain.

In a world-first trial at Sydney's Royal Hospital for Women, doctors have injected Botox into the vaginal muscles of 25 women suffering from a condition known as chronic pelvic pain.

Chronic pelvic pain is a potentially debilitating condition affecting 15 per cent of women aged between 18 and 50.

Jason Abbott, deputy director of the endo-gynaecology department, said 75 per cent of women responded to the Botox treatment and the pain disappeared completely in some.

The results were so promising that the hospital announced it was seeking more volunteers for a larger-scale study.

In ninety per cent of cases the cause of chronic pelvic is unknown, although the condition is commonly related to spasms in the pelvic floor muscles.

Symptoms include more than two years of pain during sex, menstruation or bowel movements, although it can occur at any time.

The vaginal area, abdomen, lower back and tops of the legs can be affected.

Endometriosis, scar tissue or pelvic inflammation are believed to play a role in about ten per cent of cases, although the pain can persist after these conditions are treated.

Dr Abbott said the mechanism by which Botox worked to relieve symptoms of chronic pelvic pain was not entirely clear.

"We know that Botox works on the muscle cells to temporarily paralyse them and we think it might also cause a chemical reaction that has an anti-inflammatory effect," he said.

He said the treatment did not appear to have any immediate side-effects, although there were concerns it could cause incontinence because of the location of the muscles.

"This is a very delicate area and there are potential problems," he said.

The treatment should only be used as a last-resort in women who had failed to respond to other therapies Dr Abbott said.

Women are sedated during the injections, which take up to a week to have an effect.

One injection was expected to last at least six months, although some women appeared to need only one, Dr Abbott said.

Botox is best known as a cosmetic treatment for ironing out frown lines and crow's feet but it has been used medically around the world for about 15 years.

It is also used to treat spasticity, squint, migraines and problems with excessive perspiration.

The results of Dr Abbott's pilot trail will be published in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology early next year.
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by webslave »

Intraprostatic Botox effective for a while:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29680006
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by bobby »

My doctor and I were looking into this but couldnt find anyone in the area who does this
Age: 24 | Onset Age: 17 | Symptoms: Rare flares with debilitating burning at tip of penis. Sometimes strange pain down legs to feet. Sometime Urgency and Frequency as well as hesitation | Helped By: Self therapy as well as once monthly physical therapist meetings. Relaxation of pelvic muscles. Quit Smoking. | Worsened By: pelvic floor tightening. Anxiety
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by HateCPPS »

So in this Saudi Arabian study they were actually shooting the Botox into the prostate and not the pelvic floor muscles?
Age: 25 | Onset Age: 21 | Symptoms: Pain in perineum area, bad ED, slower stream, loss of libido, | Helped By: Uroxatral, Heavy Doses of NSAIDs, Really Hot Baths/Sauna | Worsened By: Sex, Masturbation, Spicy Foods, biking, certain exercises, sudafed| Other comments: Mine started in a time after copious amounts of sex, I also held in ejaculation for a long long time after a sex break which may have contributed. Also went from protected to unprotected sex around this same time, but all tests show no bacteria. I do not have urgency issues.
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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Yes. The stunning of the nerve endings in the prostate appears to radiate to the other nerve branches, presumably.
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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So what is the best procedure? I understand injecting it into the pelvic floor muscles. I would think injecting into the prostate may have some adverse effects - Yes or No??
Age: 52 | Onset Age:49 (but I may have had warning signs 25 yrs earlier)| Symptoms: Pretty much all the usual suspects. Frequency, urgency, inability to always empty, burning and numbing uretheral, penile & perineum pain. Frequent urination at night.| Helped By: Internal PT. Myrbetriq helps but is by no means great. TENS to help sleep, and hand held massages of the lower back, hips and buttocks. Standing and physical labor help. Stretches and hot baths. Occasionally use gel iced pad on the perineum. Worsened By: Sitting (being sedentary), driving, sex, bowel movements, tight clothing and underwear. | Other comments: Currently trying L-Theanine
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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I would not do it. Injections into the prostate could introduce real infection (just like biopsies sometimes do), and anyway any improvement is temporary.
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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@Webslave - I'm just interested in your opinion on the subject, but I have 2 questions about Botox for you.

1) Do you feel the same about Botox in the bladder (as far as infections)?
2) Isn't any treatment, whether it be Botox, Elavil, Lyrica or antidepressants for example, represent a treatment that is only temporary? Outside of getting ones head screwed on straight, learning how to relax, and hitting trigger points, aren't these temporary treatments an example of the things that must sometimes be done to to get thru it all? Botox has been offered to me, and I'm honestly scared to take it, but are the risks anymore different for Botox than some of the drugs we take for this? The only thing that frightens me about Botox, is that if it doesn't work right, you could end up with a Catheter :boom: But risks are involved with everything, and even if you beat this into any remission, nobody knows how long that would last either.

My thoughts are like this. If Botox can take away many of the side effects, and calm down the bladder, pelvic muscles, or even the prostate for many months, is it not even worth it to calm everything down enough to work on dealing with the other aspects of fixing it? What really confuses me, is that if stretching, internal and exterior trigger point work, along with psychotherapy and medications, can have a calming effect on pelvic muscles to put it into remission, why can't Botox do the same? Why is it expected that it would return after months on Botox, but not after anything we could follow from A headache in the Pelvis? I would think by any method of calming down the Pelvic area, it would be a crap shoot whether it will return or not.

Just to clear, it's not an argument on my part. I'm just confused why any one therapy is a guarantee of anything, one way or the other? Risks are different for everybody. I'd be more concerned for all the guys who took all the unnecessary antibiotics for this. I'm concerned for all the medications that we take that are rotting our brains making us huge risks for dementia. It's all for the sake of discussion, and I'm not saying I trust Botox, but all the other crap we are given, doesn't have me jumping for joy either. You know I respect your opinion. You have been there and done it. I'm still in the been there moment and still don't know $#!+. I just think that with more information, it could end up being the best option some of us got. I'm working my butt off to beat this, but most days it's 1 step forward - 2 steps back for me. I'm just trying to be open minded about everything.

With all due respect as always......
Age: 52 | Onset Age:49 (but I may have had warning signs 25 yrs earlier)| Symptoms: Pretty much all the usual suspects. Frequency, urgency, inability to always empty, burning and numbing uretheral, penile & perineum pain. Frequent urination at night.| Helped By: Internal PT. Myrbetriq helps but is by no means great. TENS to help sleep, and hand held massages of the lower back, hips and buttocks. Standing and physical labor help. Stretches and hot baths. Occasionally use gel iced pad on the perineum. Worsened By: Sitting (being sedentary), driving, sex, bowel movements, tight clothing and underwear. | Other comments: Currently trying L-Theanine
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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What sort of Botox treatment exactly were you offered? Intraprostatic? Intravesical? If intravesical, have you done any research on it?
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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I was offered the bladder, and told elsewhere that it was available in certain pelvic floor muscles. Please don't think I'm advocating any of it. From any info I have about the bladder, I'm not sure what to believe or whether its worth the risk. From what I discussed with my PT, she said she's had female patients that have had success in pelvic floor muscles. She told me that in regards to the muscles, it either works or it doesn't based on info only from patients of hers who have used it. The prostate and Botox, this is all news to me. I just feel that if I could safely use this as an option for the bladder or the muscles to get me thru 6 months at a time to work on the other issues, would that be a bad thing? Speaking only for myself, every other medication has been a flop. I'm doing this with little if any help from drugs. They have no other options for me. Other than the wand and stretches, I'm not getting any other help here. Next for me, I'm going to talk to somebody in less than 2 weeks to figure out what's going on in my head to help this.

I'm just throwing things around Webslave. I need to find something that helps. Its taking a toll on my immediate family. I'm more worried how this is all affecting them than myself. I need them to be strong thru this to help me thru it. They claim its all okay, but I see cracks forming.
Age: 52 | Onset Age:49 (but I may have had warning signs 25 yrs earlier)| Symptoms: Pretty much all the usual suspects. Frequency, urgency, inability to always empty, burning and numbing uretheral, penile & perineum pain. Frequent urination at night.| Helped By: Internal PT. Myrbetriq helps but is by no means great. TENS to help sleep, and hand held massages of the lower back, hips and buttocks. Standing and physical labor help. Stretches and hot baths. Occasionally use gel iced pad on the perineum. Worsened By: Sitting (being sedentary), driving, sex, bowel movements, tight clothing and underwear. | Other comments: Currently trying L-Theanine
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by webslave »

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25914337

You certainly could try it, and it would be interesting to hear how you do
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

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When I hear Catheter as a possibility afterwards, its kind of a deal breaker for now for me. I thought when I shattered and dislocated my ankle some years back, that nothing could top that pain. 2 hours with a Foley topped that. I swear I would rather die - LOL then ever go down that road again. I'm actually more interested in Botox in the pelvic muscles, but I'm going to wait on some more info. Oddly - yesterday and today were really bad in the morning. All of a sudden it just disappeared both days. It wasn't even a gradual decrease. It shut down like a switch. Not completely but falling from a 10 for pain to a 2. Both times, something pissed me off. Got me going, then just shut it out of my mind, and then it almost went completely away. I'm pretty pissed about all this and other things. If I can calm this crap down without all the drugs, I think I can seriously work on the mental aspect of it. I feel its got to be the underlying cause.
Age: 52 | Onset Age:49 (but I may have had warning signs 25 yrs earlier)| Symptoms: Pretty much all the usual suspects. Frequency, urgency, inability to always empty, burning and numbing uretheral, penile & perineum pain. Frequent urination at night.| Helped By: Internal PT. Myrbetriq helps but is by no means great. TENS to help sleep, and hand held massages of the lower back, hips and buttocks. Standing and physical labor help. Stretches and hot baths. Occasionally use gel iced pad on the perineum. Worsened By: Sitting (being sedentary), driving, sex, bowel movements, tight clothing and underwear. | Other comments: Currently trying L-Theanine
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by HateCPPS »

Intra-muscular was the one I was curious about for the Botox.
Age: 25 | Onset Age: 21 | Symptoms: Pain in perineum area, bad ED, slower stream, loss of libido, | Helped By: Uroxatral, Heavy Doses of NSAIDs, Really Hot Baths/Sauna | Worsened By: Sex, Masturbation, Spicy Foods, biking, certain exercises, sudafed| Other comments: Mine started in a time after copious amounts of sex, I also held in ejaculation for a long long time after a sex break which may have contributed. Also went from protected to unprotected sex around this same time, but all tests show no bacteria. I do not have urgency issues.
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by ChgoGuy »

Same here! I might also try the the bladder, if I could be satisfied with more info.

If I did the muscles, it wouldn't be done by my Urologist. I would have to probably see the Physical Medicine Dr. @ Rush University Hospital that I have seen before, and specializes in Pelvic Pain issues. I just don't like how many therapies are hit or miss.
Age: 52 | Onset Age:49 (but I may have had warning signs 25 yrs earlier)| Symptoms: Pretty much all the usual suspects. Frequency, urgency, inability to always empty, burning and numbing uretheral, penile & perineum pain. Frequent urination at night.| Helped By: Internal PT. Myrbetriq helps but is by no means great. TENS to help sleep, and hand held massages of the lower back, hips and buttocks. Standing and physical labor help. Stretches and hot baths. Occasionally use gel iced pad on the perineum. Worsened By: Sitting (being sedentary), driving, sex, bowel movements, tight clothing and underwear. | Other comments: Currently trying L-Theanine
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Re: Botox used to ease pelvic pain

Post by ppp »

Regarding the fact it is not permanent, dwindles at 12 months, isn't that the case for any Botox treatment anyway? We are talking about only one shot, not repetitive ones. So 1 year is pretty good, compared to what we have. And I assume it could be repeated yearly (just like people who do wrinkles Botox yearly).

All I am saying is that if it provides solid relief for 6 months out of the year, I would be up for doing it yearly.

My only concern, just like anyone else.... side effects. Any resources on the topic?
PS: I wouldn't do it in the prostate either, too scary, but pelvic muscles ... I am open to that
Age: 33| Onset Age: 24 | Symptoms: dull ache in pelvic area, tension, feeling the need to urinate, frequency, dribbling after urination, ED symptoms started 6 moths after the onset wrecking my life since, abdominal tension, tension in my thighs. | Helped By: stretching/massage , benzos | Worsened By: Mainly sex, but also sitting and anxiety| Other comments: I have seen periods of substantially less flare-ups, but now I am at a steady state where it comes back almost always after sex.
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