Something smells fishy at prostatitis.org

[webslave]

An informant (who is welcome to chime in here) told me that

I was just informed by a member of the prostatitis--dot--org site that a moderator told him that Hennenfent [owner of the site] sold the site's forum to Rob & Debbie under the condition that he gets a percentage of the profits of the poor guys who go to China and see Dr. Song.

I asked for more details and was told that this information was gleaned from a poster there called "Suicidalballsting" (real name Frank), who got the information from one of the other site's moderators, "Arnold":

I speak to Frank regularly. Based on his writings he seems flaky and a bit "off" but he's actually a really great guy suffering from perineum pain and urethritis like many guys here. He speaks to Arnold every so often and got this info about Rob & Debbie and thought I should let you know.

Later, this informant added:

Frank stopped posting on the other forum because he, myself and lots of others believe Song is full of s**t and when any of us started to question his methods, motives and agenda, we got banned thanks to Rob & Debbie... I sincerely hope you expose Dr. Song, Rob & Debbie as the scum of the earth that they are...

BTW, Arnold's email address is [email protected] ... I wonder if he has a conscience? Write him and ask him.

[Sleeper Service]

Yes, I'd figured that one out. You may notice that Debbie is the administrator of the site.

These people are beneath contempt. many of those who claim to have gone type in a standard format 'Chinglish' where the English is just ever so slightly off. Readers may draw their own conclusions from this. The two who we know to have gone and who have fed back information have not exactly had successful treatments, but perhaps they can speak for themselves on this matter.

[scotsman]

...most of these type in a standard format 'Chinglish' where the English is just ever so slightly off.

Yes, it always made me smile when I saw so many posts, from so many different 'people', all of which constantly used Chinglish. My day job involves working with the occasional Chinese academic and it's an exact match to their written material.

The two who we know to have gone and who have fed back information have not exactly had successful treatments but perhaps they can speak for themselves on this matter.

And a few have disappeared from the forum altogether after posting pages and pages of material on their time in China (a day by day account) - but when they leave then nothing more gets reported.

[superuse]

$20,000 US provides a lot of money for bird dogs and "commissions", if that is indeed what he gets.

Fortunately the high price and foreign travel limits the damage he can do. Some people have to scrape to get the $3800 for the Stanford visit (shouldn't the people with more money be smarter than us?)

--jjf

[neis]

That place has been rotting from the head down since the emergence of Rob and Debbie, and some nut named Cooper. Cooper was an unknowing accomplice who attacked all who questioned Song or Rob/Debbie, then went to China himself, failed at the treatment, left early, then vanished. Now Rob/Debbie have apparently purchased the site, and for what purpose/motive is the question. Are they now being paid commission from Song for patients they refer? Do they envision building the juggernaut of all prostatitis sites that all searches lead to, a small but profitable percentage which will lead to Song's door? Are they the most deeply caring people on earth that spend all their free time, and more, trying to help those lost in their quest for a remedy? What is known is they silence even the most polite voices of skepticism by banning them from their site. They accept and support all positive Song testimonials, even those written in Chinglish, without question. They have created their own site devoted solely to Song's practice without mention of the other many potential causes or treatments of pelvic pain. If they're in the business of profiting off of the hopeless and suffering, that's a debt on earth they'll have to take up with the man. From a legal angle, I hope the trail leads to full exposure of who they are and what they're up to so it's stopped cold. That is, if the worst is found to be true .

[webslave]

I received this today from user Mikietrav, one of the people who recently returned from treatment in China at Dr Song's clinic. It confirms everything we have suspected:

Hi Webslave,

I must say that you were right about Debbie/Rob and the forum. I really feel stupid for getting suckered into China. Today I got into a heated argument with Debbie via email, regarding Dr Song.

She then banned me from the forum. She is afraid of my posts. She is the admin it seems. I was banned in minutes.

I threatened to post a nasty email that Debbie wrote about Ockerdoc. While I was in China, Ockerdoc posted a Dr Song failure post on the forum. Debbie within minutes sent me this nasty email about Ockerdoc. I mean how horrid. Ockerdoc suffering after spending a lot of money in China, and this is what Debbie says!! I also have information that Debbie has access to patients' medical records. This proof will be shared at a later date. I have now been threatened with police action by Debbie. She is afraid of me and my Song posts. I have been investigating Dr Song ever since returning home from China. He is bad news. I have read some sad stories. Feel free to share this info. I know of at least one patient who is half dead from Song's treatment and in pain, worse off than pre-Song.

I don't have Ockerdoc's email. I would like him to see this. This is what is done, in China/ Debbie, when people are not cured. Song's camp/Debbie send out these emails to cast doubt in peoples' minds. It's like a fulltime sales department over there, non stop... Hopefully Song's days are numbered.

Could you forward this to Ockerdoc?

Also pretty much everyone who was in China with me is still sick. Maybe one out of ten cured/helped. It also seems that there are people on Song's testimonial page who are still sick... anyway guess I learned the hard way. Keep up the honest fight.

Below is the email about Ockerdoc:

CC: miketrav <[email protected]>
Subject: Dave - Ockerdoc
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:29:38 -0600

Hi Guys:

Thanks for the updates on the forum. I didn’t want you both getting discouraged by Dave’s post (ockerdoc) so I thought I would share his true story with you. Rob and I had the privilege of sitting next to them at dinner one night (right before we left and a week after they arrived).

Dave’s girlfriend told me at dinner that she was having symptoms since her and Dave met and started sleeping together 9 months previous. She was having irregular menstrual periods and starting to have abdominal pain. I asked her if she was being treated and tested by Dr. Song and she told me that Dave (who is a know it all microbiologist) tested her in the UK and she was clean and didn’t need testing and treating. What Dave didn’t tell her is that he only managed to culture out the Staph in himself and didn’t find the Chlamydia or Fungus. Truth be known she is most likely carrying these also. I encouraged her to get tested and treated but Dave decided that he knew better and put her on 7 days of Doxycycline.

Dave gets home and is having the normal ups and downs and then decides to self medicate and puts himself on oral antibiotics. Dr. Songs number one golden rule when you leave is no oral antibiotics under any circumstances, followed by the no sex without a condom rule. Dave also has not followed any of Dr. Songs other rules, namely - washing and showering with an antibacterial soap both immediately before and again after sex for 3 months and limiting sugar intake. He could have been having oral sex also for all I know.

In addition, when Dave was in China he decided to skip out early on his treatment and didn’t stay the 40 days. Instead he decided he felt good and left after 28 days of treatment. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Anyway, I thought you guys should hear about this stupidity so you don’t start having doubts during such a critical stage of your treatment. What kind of an idiot would go through this hell, go all that way for treatment, then act so stupidly and then get on the forum and say – Hey, this didn’t work for me. Well no shit Sherlock.

Debbie

[webslave]

I saw that Mikietrav posted elsewhere that :

Dr Song works out of a condo, and he has no equipment, not even a basic ultrasound machine. His lab consists of one guy with a Bunsen burner in another room. Which cost 400 dollars a day.

I wrote and asked him if that is an accurate description of Song's "clinic". He replied:

Yes, Songs clinic is in a condo, he has one guy with a Bunsen burner doing pathogen testing. He has no equipment, no ultrasound machine, just a microscope.. that's it. He is a very cheap man. How can a guy who removes calcification not have an ultrasound machine? He makes people take a cab 40 min to a hospital for ultrasounds

mike

[webslave]

Message from Mike today:

Thanks for spreading the word. Hopefully more will post their treatment outcomes on the forum. Many are afraid to post. They are afraid that Song will stop treating them if they post. It seems people get hooked on Song's injections. Men suffering for years get a few weeks relief from whatever Song is injecting them with. They then think Song is the only person who can help them. When they relapse, they are blamed, bad hygiene, too much sex, more unblocking, bad diet, or whatever else Song can think of for the reason. Some men end up either living or visiting China every few months to get the temporary relief. There are a few men right now, whom I have met personally in China, on Song's monthly plan, one even moved to Changsha to be closer to the clinic. Another one, listed on Song's website, is back at the clinic for treatment, not cured, yet still on Song's website listed as cured. . . . anyway, I wish I could mention names, but I don't want to make anyone's life any more miserable than it already is. In time people will post. A lot of return Song patients are getting fed up.

[scotsman]

Total respect to Mike for being so open and posting his findings

[webslave]

ALERT: patients who have returned from treatment by Song now have Hepatitis C. See the main forums for details.

[webslave]

When asked elsewhere how many people had tested positive so far, mikietrav, who seems no longer to participate here, said:

4 positives so far. Probably more as people get tested. . .

From what I hear Song refuses to take any responsibility and has done all sorts of shady things, including have people threaten the lawyer fighting for the Hep. C guys. I hear he was ordered to shut his website down and clinic for 3 months, yet this has not happened. Dr Song seems very connected and sinister. I am not fully in the loop, but from what I hear, Dr Song is pulling every shady move in the book. Including refusing to communicate with any victims. He has also sent threatening letters to the other clinic in Changsha, claiming they stole all his customers. The guy is pure evil and pure greed. What kind of doctor continues treating patients after Hep. C is being spread? Dr Song did not even take one day off treating patients, he just moved everything to the 9th floor. . what a scumbag.

He has very few patients now, and most are repeat guys. You know the guys who come back every few months for more steroids. . pretty much all his other patients are gone ... that is the only good news!

Dr Song conducting an independent investigation of his own clinic is like OJ Simpson looking for the real killer. As we can all see, Song had know desire to investigate his clinic, this was just said at the time to calm the fire. . .

I feel so bad for the victims in this case. I have an idea of creating a website and getting it to come up under search engines. So when people type in "dr song prostatitis", the website describing how awful Song is also comes up. I have actually created the website, but I am not sure if I should go through with getting it into search engines.

Your thoughts? Do you guys think I should do it? If so how could I get it to come up when people do a Dr Song search?

[Jay]

Four people! What a tragedy that these folks went there for help with one terrible problem, and now they have two. I wish there were more that we could do for them.

It's hard to believe that Song is so well-connected as to completely avoid any legal retribution for this. Of course, he makes, what? $20k per patient? It's a lot, particularly given the fact that he's pretty much only injecting steroids. I guess money talks when you're reaping in earnings like that.

Regarding his question about the website ... He'd need a very skilled designer to force his way up the Google chain. It could be done, but probably not on his own knowledge. You know that one well, Webslave, I'm sure! He'd also have to be careful about libel suits, not that Song isn't deserving of everything said at this point.

[scotsman]

At least it sounds like few new patients are getting to him now the prostatitis--dot--org forum has shut-down. Just a shame it took so long to happen.

Richard.

[webslave]

This brought to my attention by a reader:

I have just been informed by my attorney in Changsha, that Mr Song's clinic was ordered to close last Friday, July 11th, for three consecutive months. The order was dispatched as a final administrative judgement by the Changsha Health Authority as a response to Mr Song infecting numerous foreign patients with the Hepatitis C virus at his clinic, me being one of them.

Mr Song has also been ordered to pay 18,000 yuan as a fine. By Chinese law, this is the maximum amount the authority could impose.

To the Hepatitis C sufferers, these measures may seem inadequate. They certainly do to me. But at least it's something; we didn't sit back and do nothing. As little as the 3 month closure sounds, 10 patients a day (there were 12 when I was being treated) paying $400 over 90 days will cost Song something in the region of $360,000, which is a substantial amount of money.

The victory may be small, but it's a victory nevertheless--so we should be grateful. And this is just the opening skirmish. A private lawsuit will be issued against Song later in the year. He has more questions to answer, more excuses to make: but this time in front of a judge and jury.

[Jay]

The above details of Dr. Song's "punishment" from the Changsha Health Authority are really shocking. For infecting an undetermined number of people with a terrible disease, he has been fined 18,000 yuan, which is roughly $2,638. Consider that at least one member reports Song charges $500/day for injections and most patients stay for 30-45 days, and you see what a slap on the wrist this is.

Not only is the fine pitiful, it's barely a speed bump given the income he was making off of his patients. The worst part is that he'll be back in business in 3 months and with no further changes required of him, unless the message has omitted any.